Yes, no matter what words we employ we can never do justice to the experience. At Eastern Since 2012. By Edward Wagenknecht, There is also the Alan Watts definition of the difference between having beliefs and having faith. I am married and trust my wife but like anything, marriage is a complete trust that the other person will be faithful (for better or worse) we live in the tensions of trusting people everyday (even strangers we do not know who drive vehicles). . Id take the liberty of summarizing that your belief in God, to the extent you do, is based on faith, not fact. And even ones blindness to this And lAck of understanding the necessity of grAtitude for thAt Is not a barricade to the reality of the creator of ones flesh & spirit. I want to be like you. Objectively and factually so. As we come to the end of this year, we begin a new theme for the Daily Meditations. Evidence: The heavens declare the glory of God. Like someone is running for political office. I use the words intelligent and basis. The question presumes that belief in God is something to be settled on the basis of intelligence, education, knowledge of facts, etc. And what religion, denomination, sect or cult doesnt seek to inculcate a sense of trust and intimacy toward its depictions of God, holy prophets or holy writings? A few years ago David Benners Spirituality and the Awakening Self: The Sacred Journey of Transformationwas very helpful in pushing me to look at the God question differently at a time when I was ready to hear it. 1300 Eagle Road For those who hold the view that the Bible contains an ever-expanding revelation of the truth and knowledge of God from beginning to end, what is to be taken away from your article? In her book Shameless, Nadia Bolz-Weber argues for a new Christian sexual ethic that allows for moderate pornography consumption, one-night stands, same-sex encounters, and virtually any sexual activity that demonstrates a "concern for each other . If we hold to the same manner in which we share any other experience with those around us, we would ge bound to accept this. ), but its also important in a much deeper way. Every disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who draws out from their storage room things both old and new. THIS IS CANCELLED: His main public presentation will be Saturday, February 15, at 8 p.m. in Sydnor Performance Hall, Schewel Hall, University of Lynchburg, drawing from . In this episode of The Bible for Normal People, Daniel Kirk joins Pete and Jared to explain the major themes in the book of Romans, why the Romans Road view of salvation is insufficient, and how a focus on God's righteousness through Jesus Christ shaped Paul's vision of harmony between Jews and Gentiles. Certainly they are subjective but that does not then mean they cannot be compared. Do you think JFK could have won with that campaign statement? But nonetheless they witness them. We also know how it may be tricked to produce the illusion of say motion or scale that is not really there. St. Davids, PA 19087-3696 Im familiar with various concepts of God. If yes, then how are we to treat the writings from the same period by men such as Josephus or Pliny. Instead it looks like people have a wide variety of reality tunnels and interpretations. For me, I often think about thinking in this context more than either a historically analytical school or even Continental. If another person or group of persons has a different list, they have different values from mine. As we do for so many other experiences and perceptions deeply subjective in nature. Just dont mistakethis as an argument for Gods existence. Its just where my thinking process is. To dig down a little deeper theologically, I can deeply understand the paradox of the Incarnation of not only a God-as-man, but in the form of a baby in a manager in Galilee in first century Palestine. Such soon discover that He is indeed a God Who communicates and is very capable of laying out a clear path for us to follow. (As ridiculous as it may sound in our context) I was on a run and received a word of prophecy to deliver to an old friend. Read Dr. Enns onThe Bible for Normal People 'The board voted 18-9 to suspend Enns, an Old Testament professor whose book created controversy on how to interpret the . That your mind cannot stretch to embrace a perspective that seems to transcend all of existence. While some would say the orthodox Nature of God and his Oneness pertains to Being, I think most more linearly worship something that is more a manner of /a/ being than Being. Peter Enns (Ph.D., Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of biblical studies at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. perhaps the matter of knowing God is based on ones necessity to survive. Sorry for the aimless rambling and thanks again for your post! The only reason I could see us being worried about being wrong about a certain path/religion/idea/concept would be because God (our Creator) might reject us if we chose the wrong path. Enns seeks to grow us in maturity so that we might take up wisdom. When asked, do you believe God exists?, I cant help but response with, what do you mean by God?'. Pete is a well-known bible scholar and is the Abram S. Clemens professor of Bible Studies at Eastern University in Pennsylvania. So please do not think I am trying to quantitize it in some scientific sense. He has taught courses at several other institutions including Harvard University, Fuller Theological Seminary, and Princeton Theological Seminary. the way is the path of becoming a new person because one is allowing God to lead you in a sense. It certainly seems that way as we compare the experiences of people across faiths. The Evolution of Adam: What the Bible does and doesn't say about human origins Jonathan Jong 2012, Theology and Science Abstract In this review, I summarize and critically evaluate Peter Enns's claim that evangelicals ought not read Genesis 13 literally. (Yawn.) M.A. Some people live with more uncertainty than you do. As a United Methodist, part of how I articulate this is in the language of experience (1 part of what Albert Outler named the Wesleyan quadrilateral). Universalism is the belief that everyone eventually will be saved. I didnt say anything about your knowledge of other religions. Biblical scholar and author Dr. Peter Enns will be in Lynchburg for a series of "Evolution Weekend" events February 15-16, joining with many other such efforts nationwide under the umbrella of the Clergy Letter Project.. However, I tend to apply such experiences to relationships that I have with the people that surround me not to the deities of ancient cultures. I would encourage you to ask God to show you His truth from His book. Or the mega church movement, to try and get and sustain even a greater Jesus high. Every compound elements etc possesses shape and colour that attracts the senses. Try the works of John Hick, former Evangelical who became a fascinating philosopher of religion and sought a common transcendental basis for them all. Deities that the Christian faith does not hold to exist. Whatever the proper loci are, watch out. Even Yale was founded by some conservative ministers displeased at the growing moderation, liberalism and theological excesses as they say it, happening at Havard. 3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; R'eyes via Compfight Peter Enns is the master at creating blog titles that are both clever and provocative. Basis for my response: 2 Peter 1:15 to 2 Peter 2:2. In The Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More than our "Correct" Beliefs, Enns argues that certainty (especially the theological variety) is inappropriate, dangerous and unbiblical. Indeed. . Of course, it helps that I have absolutely no expectations of him whatsoever. wouldnt it be more appropriate to say that its possibly an I witness account..the sin of certainty. I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on two ideas. Its not utopia but Ill take it. Thanks Pete, I expressed my full view in a direct response above. Many say, Lord, Lord. Small is the gate and narrow is the road. At best, such persons hopes could make an iron-age reality better. But you do know that you know because your knowing has a depth and immediacy to it that is never present in simply knowingabout thingseven merely knowing about God. Asking whether the enemy, or lunch, or nothing is moving in the bush over there is something we do together. Regardless of Paul's (faulty, through no fault of his own) view of human origins, three very important elements remain in his theology, despite the acceptance of evolution: 1. Pseudo-Solomon and His Scripture: Biblical Interpretation in the Wisdom of Solomon,, The Contribution of Ecclesiastes to Biblical Theology,. For instance, some have hypothesized the benefit of aggressive agency detection. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Thoughts? Tweets at @peteenns. 298 . I think the Mystics have something important to say. And I also can grok the paradoxical Essence of a Triune God, the kind of God allowing himself to be humbled and broken in kenotic sacrifice as an example of a new Way of Being, in hope of bringing forth a Kingdom. Nor does it mean we cannot say anything objective about them. Faced with the incoherence of a fundamentalist/evangelical reaction to modernity, I have no problem accepting Pascals Wager and embracing your mystical/existential explanation. It does though offer means to consider qualitative differences. Im more so now in my life in the former group of people. Peter Enns' new book, How the Bible Actually Works, at its best seeks to place us on the hard, but rewarding, path of wisdom. to the barricades of heaven where Im from. There are great books written by the likes of Brennan Manning on trusting God and there are great books written on eschatology (Jurgen Moltmann, N. T. Wright, etc) about Gods salvation extending from the ends of the earth. Also, your point about eyewitness testimony is inaccurate. Or at least you have come near enough to listen and understand much of what Frank has to say. Pages turning And it would be wise to recognize that I think. If He was visible to the eye, and perceivable to the senses, He would have resembled the things that are visible and perceivable to the senses on account of their being compound and created and in that case He would no longer have remained a creator. Their experiences of the numinous, or visions or miracles also range far and wide, including the claims of Catholics who see the sun dance, or claim saints cured them or just the saints bones, or the visionary experiences of native Americans, New Agers, UFO abductees (whatever they are experiencing), and wide range of different NDE experiences that dont seem to point in the direction of any one religion being the only true one. in being with another person expressing love in ones flesh. Because of these aspects, thinking is a collaborative engagement. Thoughts. Ive spent a lot of time thinking about subjectivity, hermeneutics, revelation, and Jesus as mediator (in the sense that Jesus is the medium through which God is known does the Spirit now occupy that space? And it is worth noting that my list is subjective too. ". What do you think of people like George Mller? If there is still to be a link to truth there at all. And we do this not by relying on our experiences at the subjective level as some private matter , but we take what can be shared about that subjective experience and put it on the table for all to look at and compare. So 2 Peter was written by Peter.how sure are you on that? Dr. Enns seems to take the view that the status of the archeological evidence is BOTH universal and static. I think the proper locus of religious conviction can help one find meaning in a religion better than help one find a religion. even if our lack of understanding gives us a sense that our existence is meaningless and that, if one could, one would not choose existence. Or even what the cosmos is? I think the sooner the Church heals the Great Schism and returns to the even the faith of Jesus certainly before Constantine and possibly before Paul, the better she will be on a cosmic mission. I am Peter EnnsI am a biblical scholar. Some people really like what I say. IMHO knowing God is as relevant as your next breath, I mean, who gave you that breath? This is the third post in a series on how God speaks to us in Scripture, following a discussion on what the early church fathers believed about how that process happened and Kenton Sparks' adoptionist proposal of a sacred "broken" Bible.. You can hold your views and that is simply fine (I respect them) but just because you cannot see the reasons for people maintaining a doubting christian faith does not mean you are right and everyone else should take a step further and doubt the whole thing That is an over simplification of the complexity of the christian faith. The Quran Chapter 112, Things are compound elements atoms etc, made of parts. . It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. ), having that preverbal felt sense of wonder, well-being & delight, sitting in the little Cave of flesh of oneself, hearing the birds twittering in spring sunshine for the first time, the thrill of having learned ones ABCs and the letters becoming words & the words becoming sentences when one is 6 years old, the gift and thrill of ones sexuality(Intense pleasure!) Such a person in fact believes Him to exist in Parts. . Rather, knowledge of God is described by terms like: participation I do not think the gospel stands on whether we can read Paul's Adam in the . . Instead, he needs to go the edge of the realm and scratch against the edges. One, what does God mean? But how is it that you still believe in God? Then once that person starts walking with God God (should) will reveal the truth to them. One of the hallmarks of progressive Christianity is a rejection of biblical sexuality, and an affirmation of same-sex marriage and premarital sex. I teach courses in Old and New Testaments at Eastern University (near Philadelphia). Scientists tend to understand everything through the lens of our basic five senses which reside in our body and soul. Well that seems to me to be more of a way of guessing then? After I became more of a questioner, and more curious about a lot of things I no longer experienced such manic-depression. I have asked many people who say that they dont believe, what evidence would be sufficient for them to believe that God exists, and I think the opposite, what evidence would be sufficient to convince me that God does not exist What are your thoughts on passages like 1 John 5:13, which indicate explicitly that it is possible for a person to know with rational certainty whether or not there is a God and whether or not they can truly believe in Jesus being the Messiah. This discovered aspect is something that has given us shared trust in the way of knowing and ability to converge on what is true. 2020 Peter Danner. Peter is an Old Testament scholar (PhD, Harvard University) who currently teaches as Affiliate Faculty of Biblical Studies at Eastern University. This answer is Biblical, albeit unpopular: the bible has always presupposed an (at least) 2 tiered, interlocking cosmology: the visible and invisible. These "ancient, ambiguous, and. I said that when it comes to experiences, peoples experience of Allah or Yahweh or Jesus or Krishna or Buddha lay along a wide spectrum. You made some very good points. Let us have both a precision of mind and openness of heart in dialoging on these matters. Peter Enns. However, I think you are confusing or conflating the experience of God with the existence of God. I do. I count it a great privilege to help students keep their horizons in front of them and come to know God better on their life-journey. Enns's methodology seems to be in direct conflict with an understanding of Scripture that affirms one divine author (and therefore one truth), and with a hermeneutic that, for the sake of knowing God and his gospel better, seeks to bring the entire relevant teaching of Scripture to bear on a particular passage.36 This is the reason, it seems . He speaks actively in academic and ecclesiastical venues on topics pertaining the Bible and Christian faith. Evidence can be internal, which whether or not you rationally elaborate upon or take the direct perceptive route nonetheless still falls into that domain. Left the Ministry. I also visited Westminster Seminary in my early 20s and purchased some books in the store there, caught a glimpse of Cornelius Van Til, and later I exchanged emails with Paul Seely on biblical cosmology, a WTS graduate. Your explanation, though a bit slippery to grab with my hands, is similar to some of my conclusions, though none have given me their answer. Joyfully I can say that as a conservative Presbyterian, some of my closest friends are devout Roman Catholics. By Peter K. Enns I have published three books: Hijacking the Agenda (with Chris Witko, Nate Kelly and Jana Morgan), Incarceration Nation, and Who Gets Represented? I have written on Peter Enns before on our blog (see the link in the analysis to Evans' book) but seeing his name again led me to look up Enns and I found he wrote a recent piece on his blog titled "How Can I Trust the Bible . Talk of a vibrant Christian faith seems overblown. Relationship is key, whether we are thinking about non-living parts of the cosmos, the living world, human-human relationships or human-divine relationships. Most people seem to have never seen or heard a literal voice of God like Abraham or Noah allegedly received. You will know whom I mean, Atheism may be comparatively popular with God himself, When a pious visitor inquired sweetly, Henry, have you made your peace with God? he replied, We have never quarreled., Henry David Thoreau as quoted in Henry David Thoreau: What Manner of Man? These are ideals that I subjectively value. I get asked now and then, Pete, youre a reasonably intelligent guy, with a Ph.D. and everything. Previously he was a Senior Fellow of . I mean, I continue to wonder about such questions after leaving Evangelicalism. Ted Cruz proudly stated that any president who doesnt pray on his knees to Jesus Christ every day isnt fit to be commander-in-chief. Your argument for disbelief is foolish, because God cannot be like any of the things perceived by the senses, nor can He be said to bear any resemblance to anything which has to undergo an ordeal of change and decay. This is very simple. AMA. The gathered Body of Christ? Most Evangelicals find themselves on that path when their evidence takes a beating and they retreat to the world of mystery. Try an approach that says were really not sure but most likely in my opinion this is the one I think it is. M Maybe dramatically more so? Fideism is a rich and credible approach to knowing God. defying compelling verbal expression And it seems that these books coming out by Evangelicals who are now more tentative or moderate or courageously admitting they have doubts are a bit disingenuous, since they all seem to rely on being certain that the God of the Christian Bible exists regardless of ones doubts. Thatjust doesnt work for me. Here might be some: Healing, forgiveness, graciousness, redemption, justice, protection, universality. 4 And there is none **like** unto Him. In this episode of The Tentative Apologist Podcast we sit down with Dr. Peter Enns to explore a range of questions relating to the Bible, science and faith. However, as my 5th grade social studies book (circa ~1958) commented on Islam, Muslims converted North Africa at the edge of the sword. JFK probably did not comment much on his Catholicism because at that time there remained a significant amount of anti-Catholic bigotry in our country. Because of the differences in interpreting Adam by biblical scholars, Dr. Enns believes that it is unwise to "cling too rigidly to any one approach" (107). Bradley Jersak (Author), Peter Enns (Foreword) 167 ratings 4.5 on Goodreads 141 ratings See all formats and editions Kindle $14.99 Read with Our Free App Audiobook $0.00 Free with your Audible trial Paperback $16.55 8 Used from $10.79 25 New from $13.67 Great on Kindle Great Experience. Perhaps even the characteristics on the other-way-of-knowing list are not beyond study. Namely the objective facts that these experiences are shared between many parents, that they have roughly the same qualia of experience, and that having a child of your own seems to bring them about. Many dont understand that the contentions among faiths are fought (and will be won in the end) not on the grounds of being right, but on the grounds of making the world right. I believe that, if there is a Creator, this Higher Power is not a being that we can know exclusively or primarily through this western way of knowing. And it is that faith that is pleasing to God, and further that faith is a gift from God in the first place. Twelve years later, Old Testament scholar Peter Enns has confirmed my suspicions, . Across religions, the evidences are the grapes and figs. My point is a rather modest one: the question of Gods existence is not settledone way or the otheron the basis of the kind of evidence-based knowledge that modern western culture (rightly) embraces to help us explain many, many things around us. 185-ca. I suggest you read Richard Rohr. . Acts of Interpretation features essays by biblical scholars and theologians offering broad reflections on key interpretive issues, rich readings of challenging biblical texts, and interaction with the Christian exegetical tradition from Melito of Sardis to Dietrich Bonhoeffer.The contributors to this volume are leading figures in the theological interpretation of Scripture. He is a cohost of the popular podcast The Bible for. http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/08/christians-or-non-christians-who-suffer.html Let God alone if need be. Though I do see you headed in the general direction of Frank Schaeffer author of the recent book, Why I am an atheist who still believes in God. In fact, presuming that evidence-based knowledge is the only sure way of knowing anythingworth knowing lies behind both the angst and the sense of certainty many feel about Gods existence or non-existence. Instead only their book features inspired writingsthe truth and stories necessary to believe, and of course conservatives, moderates and liberals differ concerning what that book really means or what the most essential and necessary lessons are. Now, whether this evidence is good evidence or not. Dr. Enns is a biblical scholar who teaches and writes on Old Testament, New Testament, Second Temple Judaism, and the intersection of biblical studies and contemporary Christian faith. This sort of knowing is beyond reason, but it is not irrational. If this is my basis, Im as comfortable (maybe more comfortable) with a Great Spirit of native Americans as I am with a YHWH of Israel. I only presume that peoples experiences of God are a mixed bag that lay along a very wide spectrum. Foreign Professionals in Babylon: Evidence from the Archive in the Palace of Nebuchadnezzar II Neo-Assyrian Texts from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon: A Preliminary Report Cities and urban landscapes in the Ancient Near East and Egypt with special focus on the city of Babylon - with Paul Sinclair, Irmgard . Peter Enns is the last person that I will analyze simply because he probably best typifies what can happen once one begins the downward spiral on adopting an evolutionary view to Scripture. Scientism and that we can only know things based on empirical evidence or data is also obviously wrong. I suggest maybe you read your Bible again. That is what He did for me over 50 years ago. Enns believes that there are many different views of God and that we human beings cannot tell which is the correct ones, and that it is better that we do not know for certain than that we do know for certain. just try it i bet you gain their trust better. We would then be wise to doubt the veracity of our own sight. Not sure what the phrase, proper locus of religious conviction means, because based on my own interactions with a wide variety of folks I have noticed that people dont have the same attraction to mystical or spiritual thinking. 2) Do their beliefs about God or Gods or whatever bring us to harming the other or the world, or bring us to healing and redeeming? You use the word sin in your title; I havent read your book, but I hope that in the discussion in the book you avoid much use of the term. I would take as examples of this people such as Jesus and the profound impact on the entire world for the good, that his truth has produced, and by extension, His Apostles and their experience. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.' (edited with Chris Wlezien). One who holds such a faith cannot form a true concept of God, he is *IGNORANT* and will always try to believe in some *creation* of his *imagination* as his god. Peter K. Enns' research and teaching focus on public opinion and political representation, mass incarceration and the legal system, and data science. And there is no one way to come to belief or faith in God, and in Christ our Savior. So thats where I am at this stage of my journey on the whole God thing. The Bible (NT and OT) both contain stories of humans having doubt while also trusting God (Elijah, Peter, Thomas, hell, all of them for that matter). I presume you are referring to Islam in your final sentence? Im pretty sure it looks like what we are doing on here (if our intentions are purely to seek and accept). If the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ does exist, watch out. Here's where the money is going! 3. Rather, knowledge of God is described by terms like: immediacy Whoever accepts His Attributes to be other than His Person then actually forsakes the idea of Unity of God and believes in duality ( He and His Attributes). 1. The good news is that those who humble themselves and say yes when He calls do experience Him in an undeniable complete way. Are they indeed properly basic?. Hey Ed; I can definitely understand what youre saying and thats why many people go thru many religions while on this path of truth. I think if Christianity, as a whole, doesnt soon reconcile itself among its adherents and with its founders teachings, it will soon (if not already there) be down an irreversible trajectory of being part of the problem rather than part of the solution in the inevitable redemption of the cosmos. Perhaps the thing that could hold rationality, mysticism, intuition, etc all together is love- as a way of knowing. as yours. He has written numerous books, including The Bible Tells Me So, The Sin of Certainty, and How the Bible Actually Works. Even today Christians keep founding relatively new and youthful institutions devoted to walling themselves up against questions, like Liberty Christian U, or Tim LaHays Heritage Christian U, or Patrick Henry U, or all the televangelist stations on TV. Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is the Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. Meaning external, physical evidence. Why do you write books attempting to make more conservative Evangelicals rethink their perspective on the authority of the Bible? As is knowledge of the Theotokos. darkness, a vulnerable faith, and the normal Christian life, Spirituality and the Awakening Self: The Sacred Journey of Transformation, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/08/christians-or-non-christians-who-suffer.html, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2016/01/gods-mixed-messages-youth-pastor-killed.html, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/03/on-recovering-from-alcoholism-drug.html, http://infidels.org/library/modern/ed_babinski/experience.html, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/01/leaving-ministry-left-ministry-polls.html, http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/cruz-any-president-who-doesnt-begin-every-day-his-knees-isnt-fit-be-commander-chief-nation, http://www.al-islam.org/tradition-myrobalan-fruit-hadith-al-halila-imam-jafar-al-sadiq/hadith. As we give exercise to examples, we often discover these characteristics are more descriptive than prescriptive in their nature. How do you know these are HIS words? But let us then continue this comparison to Buddhism. April 2015 am Universal-museum Joanneum in Graz (Schild von Steier, Beiheft 8 / Forschungen zur geschichtlichen Landeskunde der Steiermark 79) Archologie in sterreich 1938 1945 Danner Salzburg. . Which does seem not tranrational but rather irrational. In fact, if comparisons between spiritual experience seem to demonstrate anything, it is that perhaps the only objectively true thing we can say about it is that it is a very unreliable means of experience vulnerable to various illusions of reality. It mean we can never do justice to the end of this year, we have seen. Venues on topics pertaining the Bible Tells me so, the sin of certainty in God, more... Referring to Islam in your final sentence Bible for what is true a precision of mind openness. Think it is not irrational eyewitness testimony is inaccurate is beyond reason, but it not. 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